tenhou. 9K subscribers in the mahjongsoul community. A non-dealer mangan is always worth 8000 points. Languages雀魂DB. The game I had is linked below. In case of five or more counters, two yaku are needed to declare mah-jong. This collection of free Mahjong games features Mahjong in any scenario you can imagine, from original Mahjong to 3D Mahjong. If you're in 4th place during the final round, for the love of all that is good, try to put together a hand worth something instead. LyyC. 48000. r/mahjongsoul. Of course if you're an experienced player, you'll declare riichi less. Toki Onjouji (園城寺 怜 Onjōji Toki) is a third year at Senriyama Girls' High School. G’day all! It is our pleasure to announce the Australian Riichi Mahjong Open 2023 (ARMO23), to be held in Sydney on the 2nd and 3rd of December 2023! ARMO is our premier national riichi mahjong tournament, and is open to all contenders. Languages雀魂DB. Style: -. The match begins and the seating positions of the four players are displayed in the top screen. You are getting more points added on at the end though. 0 coins. 8-10 han: baiman hand worth 4,000 base points. 7K subscribers in the mahjongsoul community. Advertisement Coins. 雀魂DB. Show less雀魂DB. 雀魂DB. LanguagesDrawing begins from the wall in front of the East Wind player. Top 7% Rank by size. Languages雀魂DB. LanguagesMODE [ Friendly Match ]ผมก็พยายามเล่นให้ได้ Baiman อีกครั้งนะ แต่ตอนนี้ได้แค่ Mangan นี่แหละ. Game Won. Languages雀魂DB. If it is clear that the han and fu yield more than mangan, the calculation of basic points is omitted. Languages雀魂DB. Languages雀魂DB. A classic version of the game with 144 tiles arranged. She has brown hair and blue eyes. The best server to play riichi mahjong online out there isn't originally in English. In Japanese mahjong, yaku ( Japanese: 役) is a condition that determines the value of the player's hand. A subreddit dedicated to Yostar's game Mahjong Soul, featuring riichi mahjong and anime-inspired…About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright. This match began in 1997 and ended in the most recent chapter, now in 2017. Mahjong (麻雀, Mājan) is a minigame featured in the Yakuza series, first appearing in Yakuza 2. Therefore, a player may sit and wait with a closed tenpai hand, hoping to win the hand without riichi. So, this section of the scoring table easy to remember. . Mahjong Soul: Hand of Man. How to win a hand in the first place: To win a hand,. See moreFurthermore, higher scoring hands are then awarded as multiples of mangan. Achieve Baiman once in Ranked All Out II Bronze 3-4P Achieve Baiman 10 times in Ranked All Out III Silver 3-4P Achieve Baiman 100 times in Ranked Show Mercy I Bronze. 08-27-2022 Toitoi Sanankou: Club play: 11 Riichi with suuankou tenpai for ippatsu ron. RiichiCity - ACG mahjong games. 32 Online. Languages雀魂DB. Hisa Takei Mako Someya (染谷 まこ, Someya Mako) is a second year student at Kiyosumi High School who is the second person to join Hisa Takei in the mahjong club. The player is not permitted to omit declaring mahjong in case of. No mahjong solitaire! Play nice. The monthly Akagi manga follows the man named Akagi Shigeru, as he plays against different opponents in games of mahjong. If the winner is not East. I didn't even think about the sanrenkō and was going to be happy with just the haneman. ARMO Returns! Posted on July 21, 2023 by SBT101. Languages雀魂DB. A subreddit dedicated to Yostar's game Mahjong Soul, featuring riichi mahjong and anime-inspired…雀魂DB. Uncommon hands are scored as: mangan, haneman, baiman, sanbaiman, and yakuman. Win and you may get to see them undress in an anime sequence, though the console versions generally censor the nudity. Yakuman. Is Mahjong easier to complete with half game or quarter game? Mahjong is the last thing I need for Minigame Master, but I haven't gotten good enough hands yet. External links. 75% x 2000 = 1500 points. Highlight free tiles. To provide some perspective, each player usually begins a game of riichi mahjong with 25000 or 30000 points. The Mahjong game has two different versions: the traditional Asian version, which is a game for 4 players, and Mahjong Solitaire, which is always played by one person and is mostly popular in the West, this is. Languages雀魂DB. Just wanted to tell you guys in case any of you have been waiting for the arc to end before. Discussion on all the different rules of Mahjong play are allowed. You may click on any "free" tiles (those that are on the edge) to select them, and match them with other free tiles with the same face to eliminate them from the board. The rest sounds like bad luck/skill though. Match the tiles to remove them from play. 1K subscribers in the mahjongsoul community. Folk Fights Back held. Historically, surnames evolved as a way to sort people into groups - by occupation, place of origin, clan affiliation, patronage, parentage, adoption, and even. 「本場」. Esta versión de Mahjong en línea, además del nivel de dificultad tradicional, incluye 10 niveles de dificultad en los que los repartos siempre se pueden resolver. A fantastic Mahjong game with more realistic tiles and a minimum of 18. Sanbaiman. She wears the standard Senriyama school uniform and knee-high. At the end of the game, the player with the highest score wins the. Ok, so i've actually been playing 3 different anime mj clients (majsoul, majhime and riichi city) daily for the past month or so. Riichi -> Have an almost complete hand with just one tile missing to make it complete and have your hand entirely closed. Ponning is good for certain hands as someone already said above. Uncommon hands are scored as: mangan, haneman, baiman, sanbaiman, and yakuman. com! Book the hotel with real traveler reviews, ratings and latest pictures of Baiman Hotel (Tiandong Hengli Plaza Branch). 雀魂DB. Business, Economics, and Finance. Each yaku has a specific han value. Play on mobile or desktop in full-screen mode. Toki is physically weak. You shouldn't have to completely bail out all the time if you play by suji/kabe/furiten tiles or copy other players' discards. • 10 days ago. She used to be on the schools third team but after her hospitalization, her ranking increased. My best attempt got me 49,900 pts before Uma. 7. Baiman 倍満 - A baiman is the score type a hand is awarded if it is worth 8, 9, or 10 han. A game of Mah Jongg features 16 rounds and at the end of each round, players calculate their scores. Nearly every mahjong hand has a value in terms of han and fu, the two scoring factors. AI players calling riichi 2 or 3 turns in happens in pretty much every single player mahjong video game I've played and you basically have to live with it. g. Languages雀魂DB. If it is five han or more, it is mangan (満貫) or more and the. Extra game round, in the event where no player scores more than the target points at the end of a normal game . Languages雀魂DB. That said, I'm already invested enough in Mahjong Soul, both in rankings and money spent on the gacha, so a try is probably all I'm willing to do. The games run long because the time you have per move is incredibly generous for a net mahjong game. Since we have received so many heart-warming messages in the #4th-anniversary-shrine channel on our official Discord, we decided to pick some of the messages and post them here. A subreddit dedicated to Yostar's game Mahjong Soul, featuring riichi mahjong and anime-inspired…this portable mahjong table is an amazing innovation. 雀魂DB. A subreddit dedicated to Yostar's game Mahjong Soul, featuring riichi mahjong and anime-inspired… About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright. Probably the quickest game I’ve ever played in Kemono Mahjong. Find all information and best deals of Baiman Hotel (Tiandong Hengli Plaza Branch), Tiandong on Trip. The variant is one of a few styles where discarded tiles are ordered rather than placed in a disorganized. 6K Members. 14K subscribers in the Mahjong community. 32 Online. Languages雀魂DB. Discussion on all the different rules of Mahjong play are allowed. Mahjong Soul Game Log: Mahjong Soul play at Soul Game Log: Mahjong Soul play at Jongg. 雀魂DB. The conference Center open 24/7 for free play. Basically --- riichi is just to have a more gambling edge. 4K subscribers in the mahjongsoul community. ;)And with this I hope you have a. Languages雀魂DB. Business, Economics, and Finance. It doesn't take a lot of Japanese knowledge to use, but you can still always change the interface to English. A counter to indicate the number of hands in-between winning hands, usually indicated by 100-point sticks. Languages7. 人和THE BEST TURN AROUND I HAVE HAD WHILE PLAYING MAHJONG!!! I also was close to pulling a Plus-minus Zero. In this lesson, we will be covering the basics of the scoring system in riichi mahjong. Mahjong Soul cheerfully celebrates our 4th anniversary. Sanbaiman: 11 or 12 han: 3 × mangan: 36,000 (dealer) 24,000 (non-dealer) An 11 or 12 han hand is considered sanbaiman (三倍満, or sanbai. Play our Mahjong games for free online at BGames. 雀魂DB. 雀魂DB. Japanese mahjong ( Japanese: 麻雀, Hepburn: Mājan), also known as riichi mahjong, is a variation of mahjong. r/Mahjong • 4 days ago. 6. You shouldn't have to completely bail out all the time if you play by suji/kabe/furiten tiles or copy other players' discards. You may click on any “free” tiles (those that are on the edge) to select them, and match them with other free tiles with the same face to eliminate them from the board. Just wanted to tell you guys in case any of you have been waiting for the arc to. 6. Algunas formas, debido a su naturaleza, no tienen. Scoring in mahjong. 6K Members. Languages雀魂DB. So nothing stolen from other peoples discards. r/Mahjong. 7K subscribers in the mahjongsoul community. 1 / 3. The two main differences: the charleston and game resumption. So, in addition to mangan itself, these higher values possess specific names, namely: haneman, baiman, sanbaiman, and yakuman. Discussion on all the different rules of Mahjong play are allowed. 人和 The fourteen rule options available in 1500 Mahjong are explained in Section 09 below. My most efficency day ever, next time I will remember all Yaku-s before class, sir! <3 P/s: Can someone explain for me: How different is Mangan vs… Play Riichi Mahjong Online for Free. Mahjong Soul. 11 - 12 Han. . LanguagesSaki Miyanaga (宮永 咲, Miyanaga Saki) is the titular character of the story. 雀魂DB. LanguagesExtremely proud of this Baiman I got that ended the match in three rounds. -- Watch live at #m. LanguagesMah Jong is a game that is similar to Rummy, but it is played with tiles instead of cards. Ryuuka has long black hair and red eyes. It's the game in facebookgo Rank Match (Bronze) and i win 2 round Round 1I got Yaku by call Rii. Download and play free Mahjong Games for PC and Mac. You shouldn't need 15 seconds per move and 10 seconds per potential call to figure shit out. Now, to the meat of the discussion, my thesis so to speak. Languages雀魂DB. The expected value (EV) of an outcome is its probability multiplied by it’s value – in this case, the EV for the choices above are: 25% x 8000 = 2000 points. Haneman is more points. South games are the better way to grind if you can consistently perform better, and people busting out early will speed things up. Chơi Mahjong trong trình duyệt web của bạn và tận hưởng những phút giây thư giãn với các trò chơi tuyệt vời này. Win ____ hands in Mangan/Haneman/Baiman or above; Battle of Asura. I don't think, however, that Riichi would be a good fit for him, unless. Languages雀魂DB. Himeko Tsuruta (鶴田 姫子 Tsuruta Himeko) is a second-year student at Shindouji Girls' High School who has been together with Mairu Shirouzu since middle school. No mahjong solitaire! Play nice. Languages雀魂DB. Thank you to every Jyanshi for bringing us so many great matches! Congratulations to the Jyanshis who made to the last round, good luck and see you in tomorrow's Finals!Calling chi/pon is useful if you're close to a yaku, have some dora, and want a fast, cheap hand (Winds or dragons for example). Certain yaku are instead given a value of yakuman (or sometimes double yakuman), the highest scoring hands. External links. 16000. It operates just like ryuukyoku but the point exchange is larger. Haneman 「跳満」 = 50% more than mangan; Baiman 「倍満」 = 100% more than mangan (double) Riichi mahjong is played with 34 different tiles, of which there are four of each type, to make up 136 tiles used in total. Va. 雀魂DB. The majority of the tiles consist of the numbers 1 to 9 in three ‘suits’, which are: Souzu (aka Sou,. Discussion on all the different rules of Mahjong play are allowed. Unlike all other possible hands, this yaku emphasizes the discards, rather than the hand itself. Languages雀魂DB. Mahjong Soul. Play online, no download or registration is needed. If you had tsumo that hand, that would still be considered four concealed triplets, sadly that yakuman only works on tsumo, you need to be in Tanki to Ron the yakuman (that is a double yakuman. Along with tanyao and riichi, these yaku are the easiest and most frequently occurring yaku in the game. She is a sickly person. Languages雀魂DB. Play arcade, puzzle, strategy, sports and other fun games for free. Note that for each tile there are 4 same ones, in our algorithm, we use 0 to 135 to represent each tile. THE BEST TURN AROUND I HAVE HAD WHILE PLAYING MAHJONG!!! I also was close to pulling a Plus-minus Zero. This concept of maximising EV is the key foundation of what’s called digital mahjong strategy. Riichi City is a competitive urban-style Anime mahjong game, featuring beginner-friendly mahjong tutorials, Ranked Matches and tournaments crowded with masters! Spice up the experience with our ACG characters voiced by famous CVs, and attractive items and decorations! Set off for Riichi City now!Lately I’ve been playing a lot more Mahjong than I did last year. 22. 雀魂DB. 75% x 2000 = 1500 points. Classic Mahjong. I got lucky early and had a Baiman that shot me over the mark on my second game. Likewise, they are worth factors more than mangan. • 15 days ago. Languages雀魂DB. The European Mahjong Association (EMA) is the de facto governing body for play in Europe, and this implementation follows the current set of EMA rules (2016 version). When you find a pair, the tiles are automatically removed from the layout; otherwise they are turned face down. . After playing a bunch of Rising Dragon Cup at Orchid Palace, I realized that was pretty rare. GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. First round I completed a Haneman that pulled 6000 points from every player, round 2 saw Henrique Ron on Mónica for 8300, and then I scored a huge hand on Mónica in the third for the knockout blow. My father has gotten a bunch more free time as of late and I'm pretty sure he would enjoy learning mahjong. Awai has long blonde hair and blue eyes. No mahjong solitaire! Play nice. Languages雀魂DB. And as the OP said, when playing an East-only match the dealer can only claim the East wind as Yakuhai. 5K subscribers in the mahjongsoul community. The match begins and the seating positions of the four players are displayed in the top screen. Discussion on all the different rules of Mahjong play are allowed. North side empty. Baiman; A few rulesets set renhou as a baiman, though this is relatively rare. Mahjong Soul Game Log: Mahjong Soul play at Mahjong Soul play at Soul Game Log: like Mahjong Connect, Mahjong Classic, and Deluxe Mahjong, are readily playable in the physical world. Her closest friend and caretaker is Ryuuka Shimizudani. The rest sounds like bad luck/skill though. Discussion on all the different rules of Mahjong play are allowed. LanguagesSong Credits :Song: Lat Lag GayeeMovie: Race 2Singers : Benny Dayal & Shalmali KholgadeMusic Director : PritamLyrics: Mayur PuriFilm Cast: Saif Ali Khan, Dee. It doesn't take a lot of Japanese knowledge to use, but you can still always change the interface to English. From Japanese Mahjong Wiki. This is a table showing the compatibilities of the different yaku with each other. The hand scores an additional fan for each of the dora tiles for a total of 8 fan. . 106. Game Play. Languages雀魂DB. Wulfus88 4 years ago #1. LanguagesTorneos De Poker Texas Holden - Mahjong Baiman Mulheres taiwanesas vão a ambulatórios para doenças menores, mais homens são hospitalizados do que mulheres (12/05/2001) Pouco antes de Pompeo chegar à capital saudita, Riad, no sábado, as autoridades sauditas anunciaram que haviam interceptado quatro mísseis lançados por. LanguagesJapanese Mahjong is played extensively, including professionally, in Japan. Baiman 16000 6000/10000 [16000] 24000 12000All [24000] Sanbaiman 24000 9000/15000 [24000] 36000 18000All [36000] Yakuman 32000 12000/20000 [32000] 48000Play the best free Mahjongg and Mahjong Games online including games like Mahjong Fortuna, Mahjong Solitaire, Majong, Connect, Mahjong Online, Mahjongg 3D, Mahjongg Dimensions and Towers. Play Mahjong online in your web browser and relax with this ultimate tile-matching puzzle. While the basic rules to the game are retained, the variation features a unique set of rules such as riichi and. Beat Mahjong by eliminating all tiles. In fact, this yaku may be scored with a noten hand. The gameplay is otherwise very standard, as there are no items to change it. 雀魂DB. Languages雀魂DB. More posts you may like. That's the only way to actually create a difficulty, as creating an intelligent mahjong AI would be way harder and time consuming. com. Alternate name(s): chow (Chinese mahjong). LanguagesThese rules represents modern Taiwanese Mah Jong, where the most prominent feature is one additional set that is needed in a winning hand. Play free online games in Microsoft Start, including Solitaire, Crosswords, Word Games and more. . MAHJONG. Community Hub. 7K subscribers in the mahjongsoul community. 3) 3 Player East-South Battle. Languages雀魂DB. Customize tile set and background. Watch for an announcement on the. Mahjong scoring is complex. ” Choice Supportive Bias: “I chose to Riichi because I want to pressurise other players to fold. All the riichi hands assume, for simplicity, that waits are decent to good (waiting on 2+ different tiles of which 6+ total are still in play). 22. 8-10. Three-player mahjong is a variation of mahjong for three players rather than the more common four-player variations. Além disso, Yusufkara pediu às agências governamentais centrais e locais que não contratassem consultores estrangeiros no futuro e que encontrassem formas de fazer crescer os negócios das empresas de consultoria locais. This match began in 1997 and ended in the most recent chapter, now in 2017. After looking up the payments, additions are also made for any honba. 雀魂DB. As a beginner however, you can get by amazingly well by only remembering a few important bits. 雀魂DB. But, I’m not playing the mahjong that everyone else is used to. Also, it will not present definitions. Mahjong Soul: Hand of Man. Baiman: 8−10 han: 2 × mangan: 24,000 (dealer) 16,000 (non-dealer) An 8−10 han hand is considered baiman (倍満, or bai-mangan 倍満貫) and the basic points are 4,000. Languages雀魂DB. Languages雀魂DB. A subreddit dedicated to Yostar's game Mahjong Soul, featuring riichi mahjong and anime-inspired…12K subscribers in the Mahjong community. For each, if the fu count is greater, they are retained at mangan. When a Dealer self-draws the other 2 players just split the total score (6000 each for Mangan, etc. Value: varies, in EMA rules: unstackable mangan, in SEGA NET MJ: Baiman, in Mahjong Soul: custom rules Yakuman. 6. 13 votes, 17 comments. There are three suits of 1-9 tiles, as well as seven types of numberless/suitless 'honor' tiles. It's not unusual that the CPU wins hands very quickly without being able to avoid it. But in this situation, a tsumo mangan is more than enough. LanguagesTeru Miyanaga (宮永 照, Miyanaga Teru) is a third year student/the leader of Shiraitodai High School and the older sister of Saki Miyanaga who went to live with Ai Arctander when their parents separated. 雀魂DB. 13+* 32000. Valheim Genshin Impact. Discussion on all the different rules of Mahjong play are allowed. It is a tabletop game that is played by four players, with each player having a hand which they must try and complete to win points from the other players. triple Mangan), 6000 points base value. Languages雀魂DB. Languages雀魂DB. Mahjong Completion - 50,000 points. All counters are removed after a hand where another player than East declared mahjong while East did not. • 2 yr. Como Jogar Em Loto No Bet365 - Baiman Mahjong-Como Jogar Em Loto No Bet365 - Baiman Mahjong-cassinos online no Brasil permitem jogar com dinheiro de verdade. kotsu/kantsu fu as powers of 2), so the inconsistent range sizes (baiman is 3 han wide, the rest are 2) and multipliers (integer multipliers on 2000 except for haneman's 1. Personally, I find it quite fun to play. Languages雀魂DB. She is a sickly person. Languagesmahjong classic free download for android. Discussion on all the different rules of Mahjong play are allowed. 5) seems strange to me. Creating sets and pairs using one, two, or three lines allow sets to fall into. Honba. To get this, your must win on a discard in the first turn. 7. Join. You will want this yaku chart to look up the value of various yaku. Yakuhai 「役牌」, or Fanpai 「飜牌」, is a group of 1 han yaku scored for completing a group of honor tiles. 倍満はとても 高得点で強力な手 と言えます。. net. LanguagesBaiman stopped by the Mountain Stage in August for a sold-out show at the Culture Center Theater in Charleston, W. Daisharin: Big Wheels is normally thought of as pairs of 2 through 8 of dots. Xem thêm. experiencing thrilling "baiman" and. 12K subscribers in the Mahjong community. Creating sets and pairs using one, two, or three lines allow sets to fall into. Ok, so i've actually been playing 3 different anime mj clients (majsoul, majhime and riichi city) daily for the past month or so. Baiman 4000 11 - 12 Han Sanbaiman 6000 13+ Han Yakuman 8000 Then once you got the BP (either via the formula, or via the table if the formula yields more than 2000), the payments are as follows:. All games are winnable. Languages雀魂DB. Languages雀魂DB. 「半荘」. Maneman. Japanese mahjong features a very complex scoring system. I feel that calling Riichi is actualy incorrect about 60-70% of the time, ideally. While the basic rules to the game are retained, the variation features a unique set of rules such as riichi and the use of dora. CryptoPlay Riichi Mahjong Online for Free. Riichi City is a competitive urban-style Anime mahjong game, featuring beginner-friendly mahjong tutorials, Ranked Matches and tournaments crowded with masters! Spice up the experience with our ACG characters voiced by famous CVs, and attractive items and decorations! Set off for Riichi City now! 7-Pairs Variation: The best rule of 3-player by far, 2 identical pairs can be used in the All Pairs hand. Opponents ron off your discards 100 times. Languagesthis portable mahjong table is an amazing innovation. 2) 4 Player Hanchan Battle. This strategy may also be referred to as a "hidden tenpai". Hand with 100 fu. ”or “I oikake riichi on hell wait jihai because if anybody draws it, they will definitely throw it. r/Mahjong. Yaku; Renhou may be considered as a yaku, to be cumulative with other yaku, with a variable han value. Yes, we played many, many matches, easily more than 20 (meaning over 80 hands), and in all of the matches (though not every hand), the AI scored baiman, sanbaiman, or yakuman at least once, with at most just a couple of exceptions. 雀魂DB. Tsumo -> Draw the winning tile yourself. Damaten applied to a standalone baiman hand. Yakuhai 「役牌」, or Fanpai 「飜牌」, is a group of 1 han yaku scored for completing a group of honor tiles. Mahjong. Riichi is unique in Japanese mahjong. 💾. Study with Quizlet and memorize flashcards containing terms like Non-dealer: Mangan (5 Han), Dealer: Mangan (5 Han), Non-dealer: Haneman (6-7 Han) and more. LanguagesAbout Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers雀魂DB. LanguagesGet a massage, play Mah Jongg, have a lovely meal, make new friends and take home some wonderful memories! All minis are on sea days. The problem is, you need money, and to get money without taking forever and a half, the advanced table is the way to go. And they are easily convert back into 0 ~ 34 using folling. Baiman, 4000 points base value 11+ Han: Sanbaiman (lit. Changing of seat wind Damaten. Languages雀魂DB. Remember, dora on their own don't count as yaku, and many hands MUST be closed to count as yaku. A subreddit dedicated to Yostar's game Mahjong Soul, featuring riichi mahjong and anime-inspired…PML Riichi Mahjong Open 2020 Online Majsoul WRC 12 / 69 February 6-7, 2021 Inscripcion Chile Mahjong Open 2021 Online Majsoul 34 / 54 February 21, 2021 Web Dragon Tournament:. Even though tiles are primarily used to play the game, the game is available online and can be played with regular mahjong. Riichi mahjong is played with 34 different tiles, of which there are four of each type, to make up 136 tiles used in total. GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. . The two friends I usually play with have such annoying playstyles, they basically just call every tile they can and hope for a toitoi + dora 3 hand, almost every single game. I think I only got two other >50,000 wins out of twelve or so games. This is especially bad in three player mahjong. 7. Riichi city definitely has the better free-to-play experience via the daily grind aspect with the daily mission/rewards and weekly milestones giving free pulls, but the gacha premium rewards lack the premium polish that mahjong soul has. I'm not saying being dealer makes a player worse off, but it doesn't make them better off either.